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[Music]

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all right good afternoon everybody so

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right now we're going to host what is

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always a very important part of any of

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the ab grad cons that we have this is

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our career panel where we've brought in

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established professionals in the field

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of astrobiology because theoretically

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all of us in this room strive to be one

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of these people appear someday and we

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try to get a very diverse sampling of

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different professional interests so it's

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not just a panel of professors for

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example up here so that we could see the

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different parts that we can go into with

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the varied interests that we have in the

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Astra Biological Sciences and one of the

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best ways to introduce ourselves to the

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panelists up here is to hear them in

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their own words how they got to where

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they have how they've gotten to where

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they are right now so as opposed to be

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just reading off a page of their CV for

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you we're just going to ask that you go

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down the line to introduce yourself and

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say what position you are and anything

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interesting how you got there in the

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first place and if you want to read a

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more snippet of them their BIOS are in

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the online program so you can look at

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that and see some additional information

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as well so whoever wants to kick it off

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please feel free you said you don't have

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my name is Tony Robinson I'm the North

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American arc manager here in Charles

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ville for that's a lot of that's a lot

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of acronyms so the arc is the alma

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regional center we employ about 30

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scientists and data analysts that help

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run North American science operations

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for the Alma telescope so we work to

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provide data products algorithms

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software and the actual data from the

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telescope to you guys so I'm in charge

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of that whole that whole that whole

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organization there you wanna know how I

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got here well about 27 years ago my

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parents got the other you might know

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let's see I was a PhD student with Luce

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Snyder at the University of Illinois I

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got my degree in astronomy and

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astrophysics and the observations of

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biologically interesting molecules in

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the eyes seven comets after that I went

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on to work with Mike Hollis at the NASA

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Goddard Space Flight Center and we got a

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big survey together that you probably

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heard of some of it today or will be

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over this week the prebiotic

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interstellar molecule survey and we are

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responsible over the last 10 or so years

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of 17 new interstellar molecule

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detections including many of wichita

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prebiotic that has absolutely nothing to

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do at all with where I'm at right now if

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it's fine out that I could actually for

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some reason manage people and processes

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pretty well so I got a series of jobs at

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the National Radio Astronomy Observatory

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where I managed the user outreach user

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support and then actually was part of

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the commissioning team that finished up

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a lot of the commissioning on Alma over

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the last several years including the

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picture of HL tau and stuff and a lot of

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the other pictures up Lotus

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circumstellar disk and plop Landers

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you've seen after that kind of

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continuing on the management Roland took

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out in this role as North American Ark

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manager here in Charles ville ever

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tempted to go into academia by the time

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I was attempted to go to academia I was

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it's not alive

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yeah uh so my name is Amanda Kelly and

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I'd like to thank Tony remember Tony

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over here for introducing all the

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acronyms because Tony's my boss I'm one

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of the the 30 scientists that work at

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the North American Ark my main interest

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is doing fun things with radio

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telescopes and that's pretty much what

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I've been doing since grad school on it

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took me a while to sort of make my way

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onto the observatory path but I like it

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and I enjoy it I work mostly right now

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on the software side so I've been

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helping a lot in sort of pushing the

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oume pipeline forward to deliver

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beautiful calibrated and image data

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products to users everywhere Amanda does

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the real work let's just make that very

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clear okay

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as someone who is also in management I

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can attest to that it's my team is

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incredible and that's the reason we get

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things done I'm Miriam Friedel I am the

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director of commercial analytics at

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Elder research right up the street we

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are a data science consulting firm I

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have never done anything with

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astrobiology in my life so I enjoyed

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your introduction yeah you're an

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astrobiologist now I'm sorry so I have a

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PhD in physics from the University of

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California at Santa Barbara I did

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theoretical modeling of protein folding

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so lots of computer programming and

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mathematics from there I was never

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tempted to be an academic at all I went

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on to work as a management consultant

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for a while and that's where I learned

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how to do proper software development

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and learned about working at a

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consulting setting I spent a lot of time

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with clients as well from there I went

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to work in a neuroimaging research lab

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so that's where I learned fun things

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like our in Python and git and doing a

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lot of statistical modeling I've been an

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elder research for almost three years

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and I've been serving in capacity as

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director of promotional analytics since

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last October so now I do a lot of

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management my team is amazing and so we

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do data science projects modeling data

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infrastructure

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a number of different clients and thank

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my name is Rob Garrard so I'm a

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assistant professor here at well across

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town at UVA in astronomy and chemistry

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are some my field is through chemistry

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as you might have guessed so I maybe you

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can tell from my accent but I grew up in

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the UK and I got my degree first degree

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in physics at University College London

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I stayed on and did a PhD there in

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astronomy but aside from that I've sort

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of hopped around a few times between the

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US and Europe I've been here at UVA for

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well just over a couple of years I guess

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but I actually graduated in 2005 so I've

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sort of been hanging around sort of on

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the research side for a while before I

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actually got into a faculty position the

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maybe the interesting thing you might

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say it was something I think is worth

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discussing to some extent in in my own

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career is that I spent some time as a

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trailing spouse that is to say so my my

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wife was an academic and I sort of fired

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her and then she's now followed me here

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but I think it is a non going problem

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actually in science hiring so maybe

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we'll talk about that okay thank you

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that's why entry I'm Sarah Hurst I'm an

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assistant professor at Johns Hopkins

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which is not just across town so I drove

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down and just got here if I'm a little

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twitchy

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I'm in the Department of Earth and

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Planetary Sciences I am a planetary

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scientist and often as a planetary

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scientist people ask you know but what

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are you really you know like she did her

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PhD in physics astronomy and I am

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literally a planetary scientist my

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bachelor's degree and PhD are both in

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planetary science so that's what I have

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always done my group at Hopkins

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and does atmospheric chemistry we mostly

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work on Titan although we're doing a lot

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of exoplanets right now I have been

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working on Titan since I was 19 years

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old um so there are some other things

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that are a little bit maybe different

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about my path I didn't go directly to

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grad school um I didn't know what i if I

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actually wanted to stay in science and I

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tried to quit and I couldn't get a job

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so I went and worked at JPL when I quit

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quit I did a really terrible job of

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quitting and then ended up deciding that

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I actually wanted to go to grad school

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and so that's what I did

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um and since then I've kind of taken

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longer I think at each step than most

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people have but eventually now I've been

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an assistant professor for three years

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and so I'm also in management actually

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mostly do you think it was a problem

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going back into academia after you had

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left since I had a similar experience

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myself I mean working in commercial

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industry for five years and coming back

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and I found the path to be somewhat

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difficult so I'm interested in your

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perspective on that so I wasn't gone for

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as long as you were um I will say that I

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don't think I could actually have gone

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to grad school right away I was so

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burned out from undergrad that I think

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if I had tried I just immediately would

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have like run away screaming and um and

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just failed completely and I do find now

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with students both looking at um

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applications for grad students and also

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sometimes thinking about postdocs that

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um a lot of the students that end up I

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find doing better at least in my group

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and in our department didn't necessarily

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just go straight from you know high

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school to undergrad to grad school to to

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postdoc they took time and we're always

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sure or at least assures they maybe

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could be uh you know what they wanted to

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do next so that they said that they were

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able to feel confident in what they were

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trying to do going forward so right now

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so the intent of this is you guys can

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ask as many questions as you want I do

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have a list of questions and interesting

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things to talk to them about

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I don't think you guys just want to

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watch me have a conversation with the

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panel so I'll intersperse my question

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with yours if you guys have anything to

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ask so anybody have something to kick

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off our up I'll run back here hey Sarah

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and everyone else I had kind of a

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question to just jump on to the last

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point that you had left off on which is

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taking breaks between academia and this

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isn't really something that I'm

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intending on doing but I had talked with

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a few people before about kind of

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prolonging your dissertation defense and

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other things to ensure that you have a

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job lined up afterwards and for me in

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astronomy I think that's pretty

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important but I have this kind of fear

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of having a gap in a CV and making a

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look intentionally unproductive so do

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you have any ways of talking about how

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to make potential gaps in work

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experience not look awful for future

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employers like how do you how do you

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so I think it depends what you're doing

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with that gap I think you know academia

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is one thing specifically I also took a

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year off between undergrad and grad

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school because I too was burnt out I

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actually deferred my acceptance at UCSB

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before going back like I just the same

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thing I was like I can't handle it I

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need a break like I just need a year to

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work and I think you know as long as you

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have a reasonable you know explanation

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for what you're doing with that time I

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think you know particularly if you're

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going from grad school to a postdoc

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maybe it's less it's less concerning and

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00:12:23,069 --> 00:12:20,680
I think even in you know if you're

274
00:12:25,199 --> 00:12:23,079
leaving academia for example I took I

275
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,209
had a gap of about eight months after I

276
00:12:28,319 --> 00:12:27,040
had my second child where there was just

277
00:12:30,119 --> 00:12:28,329
you know and we have moved around a bit

278
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:30,129
and there was just nothing on my resume

279
00:12:33,329 --> 00:12:31,930
but it was it ended up not being an

280
00:12:35,639 --> 00:12:33,339
issue right because it was small enough

281
00:12:37,290 --> 00:12:35,649
so that's another thing too I think you

282
00:12:39,629 --> 00:12:37,300
know people today expect that you aren't

283
00:12:44,879 --> 00:12:39,639
necessarily going to go from one thing

284
00:12:46,439 --> 00:12:44,889
to the next to the next one more thing

285
00:12:48,499 --> 00:12:46,449
to I will just say so I took six years

286
00:12:51,150 --> 00:12:48,509
to graduate from grad school so

287
00:12:52,860 --> 00:12:51,160
shout-out to those of you who are who

288
00:12:56,730 --> 00:12:52,870
are been guys go a little bit longer um

289
00:12:58,410 --> 00:12:56,740
nobody knows that about me and I think

290
00:12:59,639 --> 00:12:58,420
there's this like weird thing when

291
00:13:01,949 --> 00:12:59,649
you're in grad school that you feel like

292
00:13:04,619 --> 00:13:01,959
oh well if I take longer then people are

293
00:13:07,230 --> 00:13:04,629
gonna judge me and whatever and like I

294
00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:07,240
had a prize NSF fellowship for a postdoc

295
00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:09,040
I went straight from there to a faculty

296
00:13:16,049 --> 00:13:12,670
position like and and that didn't matter

297
00:13:17,939 --> 00:13:16,059
and so if taking more time at the end of

298
00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:17,949
grad school means that you get your

299
00:13:22,769 --> 00:13:20,769
papers out it means that you have a job

300
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:22,779
or that you have you know a two-body

301
00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:23,920
problem or whatever else it is that

302
00:13:27,989 --> 00:13:26,350
you're trying to work out so that you

303
00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:27,999
know when you start at your next

304
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:29,470
position whatever it is whether it's a

305
00:13:34,019 --> 00:13:32,050
postdoc or you know a data science job

306
00:13:37,290 --> 00:13:34,029
or whatever else that you're like ready

307
00:13:38,819 --> 00:13:37,300
to go then you know as long as as that's

308
00:13:40,139 --> 00:13:38,829
possible with whatever your funding

309
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:40,149
situation is or whatever else and I

310
00:13:45,369 --> 00:13:41,170
think that's the thing that makes the

311
00:13:50,439 --> 00:13:48,069
I just like to add that once you get the

312
00:13:54,249 --> 00:13:50,449
pure PhD the clock starts ticking

313
00:13:56,379 --> 00:13:54,259
because there is a limitation on how

314
00:13:59,589 --> 00:13:56,389
long you can apply for Prize fellowships

315
00:14:02,169 --> 00:13:59,599
usually three years and so once you get

316
00:14:04,689 --> 00:14:02,179
your PhD you got to be ready to go three

317
00:14:07,449 --> 00:14:04,699
years is not long and so you've got to

318
00:14:10,359 --> 00:14:07,459
sort of be ready to go on that path and

319
00:14:12,449 --> 00:14:10,369
so I personally I would think delaying

320
00:14:15,729 --> 00:14:12,459
your getting your PhD for a little bit

321
00:14:17,079 --> 00:14:15,739
but it's not as bad because you just

322
00:14:18,309 --> 00:14:17,089
don't have if you decide to go the

323
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:18,319
postdoc route you just don't have as

324
00:14:22,539 --> 00:14:20,959
much flexibility in timing of things

325
00:14:31,059 --> 00:14:22,549
whereas if you've been about like a grad

326
00:14:34,809 --> 00:14:31,069
student for so many years a tip yeah so

327
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:34,819
to add to that um six years like so now

328
00:14:38,379 --> 00:14:36,409
I do a lot of hiring right and I look at

329
00:14:40,809 --> 00:14:38,389
a lot of resumes six years for a PhD

330
00:14:43,389 --> 00:14:40,819
like I don't bat an eyelash nobody no

331
00:14:45,039 --> 00:14:43,399
one cares right my boss even the chief

332
00:14:47,409 --> 00:14:45,049
scientist he spent eight years getting

333
00:14:49,059 --> 00:14:47,419
his PhD he's wanted like not an issue

334
00:14:50,379 --> 00:14:49,069
and has not hampered him at all and he

335
00:14:52,659 --> 00:14:50,389
actually spent a lot of time in graduate

336
00:14:54,189 --> 00:14:52,669
school consulting on the side so not

337
00:14:55,539 --> 00:14:54,199
only was he finishing his PhD in

338
00:14:57,519 --> 00:14:55,549
computer science he was doing a lot of

339
00:14:59,049 --> 00:14:57,529
consulting work and so that didn't

340
00:15:00,759 --> 00:14:59,059
really I agree with that because the

341
00:15:02,349 --> 00:15:00,769
clock does start ticking right and when

342
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:02,359
you start applying for faculty positions

343
00:15:06,549 --> 00:15:04,399
fortunately I think unfortunately they

344
00:15:10,119 --> 00:15:06,559
you know care how old you are which I

345
00:15:12,129 --> 00:15:10,129
don't know time says time since PhD but

346
00:15:14,049 --> 00:15:12,139
um you know in terms of how long it

347
00:15:17,169 --> 00:15:14,059
takes you to get your PhD I think you

348
00:15:19,779 --> 00:15:17,179
know I'm going to disagree with with

349
00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:19,789
some of these points so in terms of the

350
00:15:26,259 --> 00:15:23,209
the time since PhD I I was ten years

351
00:15:28,659 --> 00:15:26,269
after my PhD when I got my first faculty

352
00:15:32,319 --> 00:15:28,669
position I thought I'm not sure that

353
00:15:34,659 --> 00:15:32,329
it's pure age that is the consideration

354
00:15:39,429 --> 00:15:34,669
it's simply number of important

355
00:15:43,629 --> 00:15:39,439
publications I would also say as a

356
00:15:47,049 --> 00:15:43,639
faculty member not to linger too long as

357
00:15:48,909 --> 00:15:47,059
a student partly because it's not

358
00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:48,919
entirely your decision as a student

359
00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:50,809
somebody will be paying for you one way

360
00:15:57,059 --> 00:15:54,409
or another and you need to I think yeah

361
00:15:59,230 --> 00:15:57,069
you have to bear in mind that a lot of a

362
00:16:01,660 --> 00:15:59,240
lot of getting on

363
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:01,670
in in the world generally but certainly

364
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:03,770
in science unfortunately does depend on

365
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:05,330
having good relationships with everyone

366
00:16:10,449 --> 00:16:08,240
and stretching people's patience maybe

367
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:10,459
doesn't do you any favors either so if

368
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:12,529
you want to stay for your you know for

369
00:16:18,250 --> 00:16:15,529
that extra bit of time discuss it with

370
00:16:26,620 --> 00:16:18,260
your advisor before sort of deciding

371
00:16:33,610 --> 00:16:26,630
that's what you're going to do no fights

372
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:33,620
no I took absolutely no time off and I

373
00:16:51,460 --> 00:16:48,639
have a question for the non academics in

374
00:16:54,190 --> 00:16:51,470
the panel so one of the problems with

375
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:54,200
going into academia professorship is

376
00:16:57,790 --> 00:16:55,970
I've heard that if you want to be a

377
00:16:59,980 --> 00:16:57,800
professor you essentially have a one in

378
00:17:02,170 --> 00:16:59,990
eight chance of doing it because there's

379
00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:02,180
just a lot of faculty positions out

380
00:17:06,220 --> 00:17:04,220
there and it's highly competitive

381
00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:06,230
especially in the field of astrobiology

382
00:17:11,110 --> 00:17:08,660
where funding is tight and there aren't

383
00:17:14,740 --> 00:17:11,120
many dedicated astrobiology positions

384
00:17:16,689 --> 00:17:14,750
out there do you see a different sort of

385
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:16,699
thing in the non-academic side is it

386
00:17:22,449 --> 00:17:19,760
still equally as terribly competitive or

387
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:22,459
is it a nicer path where you don't have

388
00:17:31,290 --> 00:17:27,530
to move as much how how have you noticed

389
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:31,300
your your path and not academia

390
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:34,850
competitive voice all paths are hard and

391
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:36,530
it depends on what research faculty

392
00:17:39,610 --> 00:17:38,000
position you're looking at are you

393
00:17:41,169 --> 00:17:39,620
looking at sort of something like

394
00:17:43,419 --> 00:17:41,179
Lynchburg College where you're teaching

395
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:43,429
three four classes a semester are you

396
00:17:47,470 --> 00:17:44,960
looking at University of Virginia where

397
00:17:50,370 --> 00:17:47,480
it's sort of one class a semester with

398
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:50,380
significant research expectations

399
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,360
there's different things and you've got

400
00:17:58,930 --> 00:17:55,520
to apply to what you're competitive for

401
00:18:02,980 --> 00:17:58,940
I am very competitive for positions at

402
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:02,990
observatories um but I faculty

403
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:04,970
applications it's sort of like I'll pull

404
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:07,250
one together and it goes in but it's

405
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:21,880
that was very strange it's an

406
00:18:25,810 --> 00:18:23,510
interesting question or how you phrase

407
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:25,820
that question uh sorry that's all right

408
00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:28,730
because I have jobs opening right now if

409
00:18:36,610 --> 00:18:34,190
anyone wants a job really need a job I

410
00:18:38,409 --> 00:18:36,620
mean no and I'm not kidding I need four

411
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:38,419
for our the work that you know a man and

412
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:40,850
I are doing when he very technically

413
00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:43,010
precise people that are willing to work

414
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:45,710
in an observatory setting to help you

415
00:18:50,770 --> 00:18:49,250
know the you know help our staff help

416
00:18:52,930 --> 00:18:50,780
the community but do their science and

417
00:18:54,250 --> 00:18:52,940
those kind of things so you know and

418
00:18:56,409 --> 00:18:54,260
then from the management point of view

419
00:18:59,470 --> 00:18:56,419
we have several jobs opening for

420
00:19:01,480 --> 00:18:59,480
management because you you managing

421
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:01,490
people is a lot different than managing

422
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:02,809
tasks which is a lot different than

423
00:19:08,140 --> 00:19:05,570
actually completing your thesis so it's

424
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:08,150
just it's it's a it's a huge it's a very

425
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:11,840
different environment so yes I have

426
00:19:17,169 --> 00:19:13,850
staff positions opening that I am

427
00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:17,179
searching to fill I'm very happy that a

428
00:19:20,289 --> 00:19:19,669
man to decide to stay no idea how happy

429
00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:20,299
I'm happy

430
00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:22,910
the man decide to stay but you know the

431
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:24,980
and but we have multiple management

432
00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:28,250
positions now in um the Alma project

433
00:19:33,370 --> 00:19:31,040
that are just not filled because you

434
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:33,380
just cannot find that correct balance

435
00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:35,210
between a technical person that can

436
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:38,270
manage people in order to drive that to

437
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:39,679
in order to be successful in that

438
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,420
from a hiring perspective how do you

439
00:19:59,870 --> 00:19:58,080
identify people who have those skills

440
00:20:00,680 --> 00:19:59,880
and what do you look for did you want to

441
00:20:05,930 --> 00:20:00,690
say something before I answer that

442
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:05,940
question or no okay um yeah I wanted

443
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:08,090
because that's a great question also um

444
00:20:13,940 --> 00:20:12,240
so I think in terms of non academia so I

445
00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:13,950
am in the field of data science right

446
00:20:17,060 --> 00:20:15,510
which is kind of a hot field right now

447
00:20:18,530 --> 00:20:17,070
like you hear about big data although

448
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,540
don't ever say those words because it's

449
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:20,640
very imprecise like big data doesn't

450
00:20:27,290 --> 00:20:23,970
really mean anything and so what we look

451
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:27,300
for we sometimes hire you know X

452
00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:29,610
academics right people with PhDs and

453
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:32,160
technical fields you know if you have

454
00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:34,170
experience writing code you could

455
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,440
potentially work as a software engineer

456
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:39,120
right like the path I think the path

457
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:40,740
forward to growing and advancing your

458
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:42,090
career I think you have a lot more

459
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:45,120
options if you leave academia like

460
00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:47,310
that's one option like being faculty is

461
00:20:52,010 --> 00:20:49,710
awesome but sometimes you have 300

462
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:52,020
people applying for one spot right it's

463
00:20:55,220 --> 00:20:53,760
incredibly competitive you said one in

464
00:20:57,290 --> 00:20:55,230
eight I would be surprised if it's

465
00:20:59,570 --> 00:20:57,300
actually that high so I think that

466
00:21:02,180 --> 00:20:59,580
keeping in mind what do I like to do

467
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:02,190
what are the skills that I have where do

468
00:21:06,140 --> 00:21:04,200
I feel like I could use these like for

469
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:06,150
many of you I think academia is going to

470
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:07,860
be the most attractive option and that's

471
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:10,170
great but there with technical skills

472
00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:12,330
like there's a huge world of things you

473
00:21:16,820 --> 00:21:14,340
can do consulting data science software

474
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:16,830
engineering you know there's scientific

475
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:18,570
research positions at various companies

476
00:21:21,650 --> 00:21:20,130
right you think of all the big ones like

477
00:21:23,710 --> 00:21:21,660
Google or Apple or all of these

478
00:21:26,690 --> 00:21:23,720
different things and so I think that

479
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:26,700
particularly if you move to I mean

480
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:28,170
Charlottesville has a ton here for its

481
00:21:32,210 --> 00:21:29,730
size but if you move to places you know

482
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:32,220
Boston New York San Francisco you don't

483
00:21:35,090 --> 00:21:33,690
have to move around all the time because

484
00:21:36,650 --> 00:21:35,100
there's such a wealth of jobs there so

485
00:21:40,130 --> 00:21:36,660
it's not that one is better or worse

486
00:21:43,070 --> 00:21:40,140
than the other but there are I think a

487
00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:43,080
lot of options that are different than

488
00:21:50,860 --> 00:21:47,700
the academic one did you guys want to

489
00:21:55,450 --> 00:21:50,870
comment on this at all your academics it

490
00:21:56,770 --> 00:21:55,460
yeah no no guys and say you answer that

491
00:22:04,299 --> 00:21:56,780
question and then I have some thoughts

492
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:04,309
on that too so does anybody here want to

493
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:06,110
be an astronaut did anybody apply to the

494
00:22:11,860 --> 00:22:10,130
Astra okay so I was I was the the prior

495
00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:11,870
astronaut selection was actually when I

496
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:14,180
was applying for faculty positions and I

497
00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:15,170
made it through the first couple rounds

498
00:22:18,580 --> 00:22:16,670
of astronaut selection I had this

499
00:22:20,290 --> 00:22:18,590
horrifying moment where I realized that

500
00:22:21,549 --> 00:22:20,300
at that point in my life there was

501
00:22:23,290 --> 00:22:21,559
actually a better chance that I was

502
00:22:26,110 --> 00:22:23,300
going to become an astronaut I think in

503
00:22:28,660 --> 00:22:26,120
a faculty musician which was like this

504
00:22:30,940 --> 00:22:28,670
really terrifying like holy what

505
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:30,950
have I done with my life like moment

506
00:22:34,330 --> 00:22:33,050
that I had but I will say so the one

507
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:34,340
innate whatever numbers you want to come

508
00:22:38,740 --> 00:22:36,890
up with like so I know my position at

509
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:38,750
Hopkins are were like 150 people who

510
00:22:42,669 --> 00:22:41,120
applied but I also know that if you

511
00:22:44,260 --> 00:22:42,679
looked at those applications which I

512
00:22:46,660 --> 00:22:44,270
didn't I wasn't on the search for hire

513
00:22:48,270 --> 00:22:46,670
myself that you know and not in

514
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:48,280
substantial fraction of those were not

515
00:22:52,210 --> 00:22:51,050
people who were really serious about the

516
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:52,220
position in the first place right

517
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:54,410
because a lot of these positions get

518
00:22:58,180 --> 00:22:56,450
spammed by people who are looking for

519
00:23:00,280 --> 00:22:58,190
anything that's even remotely adjacent

520
00:23:01,810 --> 00:23:00,290
to what they do and even if you just

521
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:01,820
look at the overall numbers in the field

522
00:23:05,620 --> 00:23:03,410
like not everybody who starts grad

523
00:23:07,450 --> 00:23:05,630
school wants to be a professor and so

524
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:07,460
that's something to keep in mind that

525
00:23:10,270 --> 00:23:09,170
you know just because you look at those

526
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:10,280
overall numbers and you're like holy

527
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:12,170
there's no way like this is

528
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:14,960
ridiculous doesn't mean that if you want

529
00:23:18,850 --> 00:23:17,570
it you can't have it and that doesn't

530
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:18,860
mean that you should feel ridiculous

531
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:21,050
like saying it out loud I always I joke

532
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:22,070
the longest time like well I'd like to

533
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:23,450
be a professor but I'd also like you

534
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:25,250
know a pony in a million dollars like

535
00:23:29,530 --> 00:23:27,410
because it felt ridiculous but it wasn't

536
00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:29,540
ridiculous and so you know there is a

537
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:31,190
path forward that way if that's what you

538
00:23:37,660 --> 00:23:35,570
want to do and I I think that most of

539
00:23:39,490 --> 00:23:37,670
the people that that I know in the field

540
00:23:41,410 --> 00:23:39,500
who really wanted that have found it in

541
00:23:43,210 --> 00:23:41,420
some way or another and most of the

542
00:23:44,919 --> 00:23:43,220
people who've wanted to stay in academia

543
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:44,929
have found it in some way or another but

544
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:46,250
a lot of people never wanted that to

545
00:23:49,210 --> 00:23:48,050
begin with or they change their mind

546
00:23:51,970 --> 00:23:49,220
while they were in grad school and

547
00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:51,980
that's fine too so you know it's just to

548
00:23:55,419 --> 00:23:53,780
think that you know you're not you're

549
00:23:56,620 --> 00:23:55,429
not always competing with as many people

550
00:24:01,770 --> 00:23:56,630
as you might feel like you're competing

551
00:24:05,970 --> 00:24:03,690
okay all right I'll say something

552
00:24:08,220 --> 00:24:05,980
quickly which is I did obviously how

553
00:24:10,350 --> 00:24:08,230
many years now but I started in Europe

554
00:24:12,090 --> 00:24:10,360
and I spent some time in Germany for

555
00:24:15,210 --> 00:24:12,100
example I would encourage you to look

556
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:15,220
outside of North America there are lots

557
00:24:20,460 --> 00:24:18,490
of very good opportunities elsewhere and

558
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:20,470
you don't necessarily have to speak the

559
00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:22,690
language does help right but you know

560
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:24,190
where I was in Germany might you know my

561
00:24:31,260 --> 00:24:29,050
German is still rudimentary at best but

562
00:24:33,090 --> 00:24:31,270
the working language is English and

563
00:24:35,370 --> 00:24:33,100
that's often the case which puts you in

564
00:24:39,030 --> 00:24:35,380
a very lucky position as English

565
00:24:45,780 --> 00:24:39,040
speakers right so I would yeah look to

566
00:24:47,390 --> 00:24:45,790
move even if you ultimately come back so

567
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:47,400
now I'll talk about management skills

568
00:25:00,660 --> 00:24:58,920
so the the difference is it's a lot

569
00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:00,670
different so I got my patient load time

570
00:25:05,130 --> 00:25:03,280
ago and you were very you were working

571
00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:05,140
on your your thesis and you were working

572
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:06,070
with your adviser maybe had a couple

573
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:07,450
collaborators and was very different how

574
00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:09,310
we communicate with each other and how

575
00:25:12,990 --> 00:25:11,350
we worked our thesis now the the way

576
00:25:15,390 --> 00:25:13,000
that things have evolved over the course

577
00:25:17,370 --> 00:25:15,400
the last 15 years probably a lot more

578
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:17,380
interaction with your colleagues and

579
00:25:21,810 --> 00:25:19,750
your you know kawaii' there's you know

580
00:25:23,310 --> 00:25:21,820
Skype or you know email and all this

581
00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:23,320
kind of stuff that you didn't wasn't

582
00:25:30,570 --> 00:25:25,030
wasn't very readily accessible when I

583
00:25:33,270 --> 00:25:30,580
was finishing but still you have a how

584
00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:33,280
do you translate that to a roomful of

585
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:35,160
six people

586
00:25:41,010 --> 00:25:38,890
your sign software team meetings that

587
00:25:43,860 --> 00:25:41,020
have very strong opinions about how

588
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:43,870
things should be done and they are all

589
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:45,310
absolutely correct and what they are

590
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:47,410
saying but you have to make a decision

591
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:48,610
on which way you're going to go and it's

592
00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:50,290
going to affect not only that decision

593
00:25:52,830 --> 00:25:51,460
but the next decision and the next

594
00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:52,840
decision now you're into like what's

595
00:25:59,700 --> 00:25:57,130
going to happen next there's a general

596
00:26:01,170 --> 00:25:59,710
consensus among everyone that's in you

597
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:01,180
know we're all collaborative we all work

598
00:26:03,870 --> 00:26:02,650
together we could all each other we

599
00:26:05,310 --> 00:26:03,880
could all work together and we can

600
00:26:07,020 --> 00:26:05,320
always make it fine to compromise and

601
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:07,030
this and that sometimes you just in

602
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:08,530
terms of management skills you someone's

603
00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:09,760
just got to have to make a decision and

604
00:26:13,020 --> 00:26:11,320
say look I've heard all your opinions

605
00:26:14,910 --> 00:26:13,030
they're all good they're all valid

606
00:26:15,539 --> 00:26:14,920
everything is is but you know what we're

607
00:26:19,259 --> 00:26:15,549
going this way

608
00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:19,269
and that skill especially in a room full

609
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:21,820
of very strong-willed a type personality

610
00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:24,159
people with very good opinions and why

611
00:26:28,229 --> 00:26:26,080
theirs is the best is a very hard thing

612
00:26:31,739 --> 00:26:28,239
to do because you will get shot at and

613
00:26:34,529 --> 00:26:31,749
shot down so hard by everyone else that

614
00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:34,539
you don't agree with and how do how do

615
00:26:37,649 --> 00:26:36,340
you build that skill is just as you just

616
00:26:41,970 --> 00:26:37,659
have to put yourself into those

617
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,980
situations my old people that I my old

618
00:26:45,539 --> 00:26:43,600
advisers thought I worked with it was

619
00:26:47,159 --> 00:26:45,549
trial by fire put yourself in a very

620
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:47,169
uncomfortable situation begin with and

621
00:26:50,849 --> 00:26:49,690
see how you do you could take all the

622
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:50,859
management training courses you want

623
00:26:54,090 --> 00:26:52,210
they could give you techniques and how

624
00:26:55,710 --> 00:26:54,100
to do things and how to talk in a

625
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:55,720
certain way but until you're actually in

626
00:27:00,899 --> 00:26:57,970
that room with that five people that are

627
00:27:03,239 --> 00:27:00,909
actually trying to state their case very

628
00:27:04,769 --> 00:27:03,249
strongly and they're alright but you

629
00:27:06,330 --> 00:27:04,779
have to make a decision and you got to

630
00:27:08,129 --> 00:27:06,340
go forward that decision and the and

631
00:27:10,109 --> 00:27:08,139
those five people are all going to tell

632
00:27:11,070 --> 00:27:10,119
you why you're wrong that's a very

633
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:11,080
difficult thing to do and so you're

634
00:27:15,629 --> 00:27:12,970
actually in that position and a lot of

635
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:15,639
management training is not preparing you

636
00:27:18,570 --> 00:27:17,289
for that but you that's what you need in

637
00:27:19,979 --> 00:27:18,580
order to do that that's a difference

638
00:27:26,970 --> 00:27:19,989
between managing just a process and

639
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:26,980
managing people I he's not understating

640
00:27:33,869 --> 00:27:31,090
the strong personality angle here by the

641
00:27:39,419 --> 00:27:33,879
way when when they yell at her boss then

642
00:27:41,989 --> 00:27:39,429
they all come and yell at me and I think

643
00:27:43,979 --> 00:27:41,999
so I think the listening is really

644
00:27:46,019 --> 00:27:43,989
important so you asked a question about

645
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:46,029
how do you look for those skills and how

646
00:27:49,349 --> 00:27:47,710
do you develop those skills language

647
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:49,359
isn't it but I think I want to

648
00:27:55,049 --> 00:27:51,279
underscore the listening piece because I

649
00:27:57,239 --> 00:27:55,059
think that I want my team to be able to

650
00:27:58,889 --> 00:27:57,249
come to me and disagree with me and know

651
00:28:00,749 --> 00:27:58,899
that I will listen to what they have to

652
00:28:02,999 --> 00:28:00,759
say and even if ultimately I have to

653
00:28:05,549 --> 00:28:03,009
make the decision they know that I took

654
00:28:07,109 --> 00:28:05,559
their opinion into consideration right I

655
00:28:08,399 --> 00:28:07,119
was listening to understand what they

656
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:08,409
were saying not just listening to

657
00:28:13,259 --> 00:28:10,330
respond to them and give them my opinion

658
00:28:16,049 --> 00:28:13,269
I think in terms of what I look for it

659
00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:16,059
sort of depends on the experience level

660
00:28:19,259 --> 00:28:17,470
of the person right like if you're just

661
00:28:21,180 --> 00:28:19,269
coming out of grad school with a PhD I

662
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:21,190
am almost certainly not going to hire

663
00:28:25,739 --> 00:28:23,769
you into any sort of leadership role

664
00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:25,749
because I don't know what your skills

665
00:28:29,180 --> 00:28:27,190
are in terms of communication

666
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:29,190
interacting with clients talking

667
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:32,640
people who it's not just I need to

668
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:34,530
present the scientific research to a

669
00:28:38,060 --> 00:28:36,450
roomful of colleagues who are in my

670
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:38,070
field with different interests it's I

671
00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:39,360
need to talk about something that is

672
00:28:43,550 --> 00:28:41,700
extremely technical to a roomful of

673
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:43,560
people who don't even want to hear about

674
00:28:48,410 --> 00:28:45,810
the word statistics or I need to be able

675
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:48,420
to communicate sometimes to you know the

676
00:28:52,190 --> 00:28:50,490
CEO of a 1 billion dollar company who

677
00:28:54,050 --> 00:28:52,200
needs to know why it's worth it to pay

678
00:28:55,940 --> 00:28:54,060
me 250 dollars an hour to solve this

679
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:55,950
problem for him so there's a lot of

680
00:28:59,360 --> 00:28:56,970
different ways that you have to

681
00:29:01,850 --> 00:28:59,370
communicate and so what I look for is

682
00:29:03,710 --> 00:29:01,860
just looking at how do you write how do

683
00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:03,720
you communicate with your colleagues how

684
00:29:08,210 --> 00:29:06,390
flexible are you how willing are you to

685
00:29:09,650 --> 00:29:08,220
sort of you know pivot based on what the

686
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:09,660
people around you are saying and so I

687
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:12,510
think looking for those things you know

688
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:14,010
being humble like when you're wrong

689
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:15,600
saying you know what I was wrong I

690
00:29:19,490 --> 00:29:16,860
screwed that up all of these things

691
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:19,500
which maybe might sound I don't know if

692
00:29:22,220 --> 00:29:20,610
counterintuitive is the right word but

693
00:29:23,930 --> 00:29:22,230
you know I wouldn't have necessarily

694
00:29:26,210 --> 00:29:23,940
thought oh these are the leadership

695
00:29:28,190 --> 00:29:26,220
qualities I look for but now you know

696
00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:28,200
that I lead people I work with a lot of

697
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:29,940
people and I you know those are sort of

698
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:31,710
the things I look for so I don't know I

699
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:33,690
don't have a lot of great experience or

700
00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:36,090
a way to tell you how to develop those

701
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:37,860
because I sort of like I had helped

702
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:39,510
developing them from former bosses and

703
00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:41,370
so I look to develop those things in my

704
00:29:53,030 --> 00:29:48,840
team yeah so I am a grad student from

705
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:53,040
Italy and there are you can always feel

706
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:56,610
that it's much more difficult for women

707
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:00,480
than for men to have a career both in

708
00:30:05,090 --> 00:30:02,490
academia and not in academia so it's

709
00:30:06,530 --> 00:30:05,100
both of them so I was wondering if you

710
00:30:09,410 --> 00:30:06,540
have ever experienced something like

711
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:09,420
that and especially in terms of like

712
00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:12,720
having a real life apart from like

713
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:16,260
working in the lab so in I don't know in

714
00:30:20,690 --> 00:30:18,360
terms of having a family or something

715
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:20,700
like that that sometimes maybe you want

716
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:28,110
to okay okay all right all the mics I'll

717
00:30:32,540 --> 00:30:29,730
make this quick so other people can talk

718
00:30:35,150 --> 00:30:32,550
so I do I have two children if two girls

719
00:30:39,020 --> 00:30:35,160
are eating a half in six and a half at

720
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:39,030
my first consulting job so it it is hard

721
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:42,090
to manage all those things I think

722
00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:42,880
having

723
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:45,070
a helpful support system a partner

724
00:30:52,140 --> 00:30:49,450
friends family really helps after I had

725
00:30:54,510 --> 00:30:52,150
my first daughter my consulting job the

726
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:54,520
expectation was minimum 10 hour days and

727
00:30:58,350 --> 00:30:56,770
after I had her I was fortunate to have

728
00:31:01,650 --> 00:30:58,360
a six-month maternity leave and I was

729
00:31:04,380 --> 00:31:01,660
like nope I am NOT interested in doing

730
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:04,390
that and so I went part-time instead of

731
00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:06,370
working 50 hours a week I worked 30 and

732
00:31:09,630 --> 00:31:07,900
I took a pay cut but it worked really

733
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:09,640
really well because I was still able to

734
00:31:15,210 --> 00:31:11,530
work and contribute technically to the

735
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:15,220
teens that I was on but I didn't have to

736
00:31:19,230 --> 00:31:16,810
be at work for so many hours a week and

737
00:31:21,890 --> 00:31:19,240
I more time with my daughter I'm very

738
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:21,900
fortunate now that the job that I am in

739
00:31:26,490 --> 00:31:25,120
it's pretty family friendly like there

740
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:26,500
are times I have to bring my kids to the

741
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:29,290
office for various things you know I

742
00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:31,120
think also having you know my kids

743
00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:33,070
father and I were actually separated but

744
00:31:36,690 --> 00:31:35,200
right now he's taking our kids to the

745
00:31:39,390 --> 00:31:36,700
orthodontist so I can be here on this

746
00:31:41,310 --> 00:31:39,400
panel and I try to support him similarly

747
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:41,320
right because it's better for our kids

748
00:31:47,820 --> 00:31:44,080
and so I think that having that support

749
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:47,830
system you know having I think more and

750
00:31:52,380 --> 00:31:50,320
more companies understand right like you

751
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:52,390
have a life outside of work right like

752
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:54,640
you you cannot be married to your job

753
00:31:59,580 --> 00:31:57,760
all the time and so I think that I've

754
00:32:01,260 --> 00:31:59,590
been very fortunate but I've also had to

755
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:01,270
make some sacrifices I'll give one more

756
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:03,610
example and then I passed the mic

757
00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:05,440
when we were living in Toronto when I

758
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:07,710
was working in the neuro imaging lab I

759
00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:10,090
it was about 40 hours a week I was a

760
00:32:13,260 --> 00:32:11,920
research scientist right so kind of like

761
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:13,270
my boss used to call me like a super

762
00:32:17,250 --> 00:32:15,610
postdoc I was like a postdoc plus so

763
00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:17,260
that was about a 40 hour week job which

764
00:32:21,420 --> 00:32:19,030
was great but I'd take a really big pay

765
00:32:23,730 --> 00:32:21,430
cut for my consulting salary and a very

766
00:32:26,790 --> 00:32:23,740
very large fraction of my income was

767
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:26,800
going to daycare expenses and it was

768
00:32:30,750 --> 00:32:28,450
definitely like am I making the right

769
00:32:32,610 --> 00:32:30,760
choice right like I am NOT taking home a

770
00:32:35,130 --> 00:32:32,620
lot of money you know it's kind of

771
00:32:36,990 --> 00:32:35,140
stressful but ultimately it paid off

772
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:37,000
because I continued working and the

773
00:32:43,020 --> 00:32:41,010
skills that I gained in that job

774
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:43,030
directly helped me get the job I'm in

775
00:32:46,650 --> 00:32:44,650
now and I've since been promoted and my

776
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:46,660
salary has increased quite a bit so it

777
00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:48,730
was not always easy but I have been

778
00:32:52,050 --> 00:32:50,950
fortunate to have a lot of support and

779
00:32:55,549 --> 00:32:52,060
have the ability to make those choices

780
00:33:03,320 --> 00:32:58,279
I can well I so I don't have any kids I

781
00:33:05,239 --> 00:33:03,330
am married um and it's just it's I've

782
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:05,249
never had any problems with harassment

783
00:33:08,989 --> 00:33:06,480
or anything like that which

784
00:33:12,129 --> 00:33:08,999
unfortunately has been a topic of

785
00:33:14,539 --> 00:33:12,139
conversation in the Astronomy community

786
00:33:16,249 --> 00:33:14,549
but at the same time it's still hard

787
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:16,259
particularly if you're in sort of a dual

788
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:17,850
career couples no matter I mean no

789
00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:19,529
matter where you are this is difficult

790
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:21,870
unless you work in the same industry but

791
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:24,450
I actually had to turn down a permanent

792
00:33:29,629 --> 00:33:26,730
job offer because there was just nothing

793
00:33:35,779 --> 00:33:29,639
there for my spouse and it killed me god

794
00:33:41,629 --> 00:33:35,789
it's mine it fellas mine well yeah I had

795
00:33:42,859 --> 00:33:41,639
to sign but but so it it's sometimes you

796
00:33:44,629 --> 00:33:42,869
just got to make the best choice for

797
00:33:46,460 --> 00:33:44,639
your sanity and the sanity of your

798
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:46,470
partner and the sanity of your family

799
00:33:56,629 --> 00:33:48,960
which may not look to be the most sane

800
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:56,639
choice to to people outside you choose

801
00:33:59,980 --> 00:33:58,320
what's right for you and everyone has a

802
00:34:02,180 --> 00:33:59,990
different set of parameters and and

803
00:34:08,089 --> 00:34:02,190
things that matter to them and that's

804
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:08,099
okay uh yeah so a few things I mean I

805
00:34:14,030 --> 00:34:09,599
could talk about this how long does I

806
00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:14,040
really have um I know seriously

807
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:15,540
and also if we could have some vodka

808
00:34:25,879 --> 00:34:22,770
that'd be amazing uh so uh I don't know

809
00:34:29,930 --> 00:34:25,889
where to start and so I'm not married I

810
00:34:31,879 --> 00:34:29,940
don't have kids I am in a very long-term

811
00:34:34,399 --> 00:34:31,889
and also at this point very long

812
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,409
distance relationship my partner did not

813
00:34:38,270 --> 00:34:36,720
move with me to Baltimore so we've been

814
00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:38,280
apart for three years now which was the

815
00:34:42,409 --> 00:34:40,260
solution that we came up with at the

816
00:34:45,740 --> 00:34:42,419
time which is not a solution that works

817
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:45,750
for a lot of people um and it's not a

818
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:47,010
good long-term solution I think for

819
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:48,510
anybody but it's what we're doing right

820
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:48,720
now

821
00:34:57,500 --> 00:34:54,649
um I would say that I probably feel uh

822
00:34:59,300 --> 00:34:57,510
that I am a woman in science every

823
00:35:01,700 --> 00:34:59,310
single day and not just a scientist

824
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:01,710
which is frustrating um when I joined

825
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:03,450
the faculty at Hopkins there were two of

826
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:07,410
us and she left a few months after I got

827
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:08,250
there and

828
00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:12,000
I spent a decent chunk of time as the

829
00:35:16,370 --> 00:35:14,220
only female tenure track professor in

830
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:16,380
our department which was not my favorite

831
00:35:23,780 --> 00:35:20,400
period of my life we had another woman

832
00:35:26,180 --> 00:35:23,790
start last fall and we have four new

833
00:35:29,450 --> 00:35:26,190
assistant professor starting in the fall

834
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:29,460
and they are all women so things are

835
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:31,170
changing in our department which I think

836
00:35:36,260 --> 00:35:34,560
will help there's a lot of research that

837
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:36,270
has been really beneficial to me in

838
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:37,770
terms of understanding the way that I

839
00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:40,050
react to being a woman in science and I

840
00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:41,190
think some of that has been really

841
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:44,790
helpful the other thing that I would

842
00:35:48,830 --> 00:35:47,490
definitely encourage you all to do if

843
00:35:51,740 --> 00:35:48,840
you're feeling isolated for any reason

844
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:51,750
and it's not just you know um being a

845
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:53,250
woman in science you know if you're

846
00:35:56,780 --> 00:35:55,050
black in science if you're gay in

847
00:35:59,810 --> 00:35:56,790
science if you're disabled in science

848
00:36:02,330 --> 00:35:59,820
all of those things are going to result

849
00:36:03,740 --> 00:36:02,340
in you feeling isolated at some point in

850
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:03,750
your career especially as you get

851
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:06,240
farther along or the field becomes less

852
00:36:09,980 --> 00:36:08,010
diverse I mean I look around this room

853
00:36:13,580 --> 00:36:09,990
now I would be amazing if a faculty

854
00:36:16,970 --> 00:36:13,590
meeting with like this um and so you

855
00:36:18,530 --> 00:36:16,980
know you can build networks outside of

856
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:18,540
where you're at and that will really

857
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:20,400
help and so um

858
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:23,130
some of you at least a few of you I know

859
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:25,290
and I was checking the hashtag um you

860
00:36:30,050 --> 00:36:27,450
know are on Twitter and it might sound

861
00:36:31,820 --> 00:36:30,060
ridiculous to say but um I I found a

862
00:36:33,830 --> 00:36:31,830
community on social media that has been

863
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:33,840
very helpful to me and so I have a whole

864
00:36:38,140 --> 00:36:35,730
collection of female assistant

865
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:38,150
professors in science um they're not

866
00:36:41,690 --> 00:36:39,810
planetary scientists they're not

867
00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:41,700
astrobiologists but there are people

868
00:36:46,220 --> 00:36:43,470
whose day-to-day lives are actually very

869
00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:46,230
similar to mine and that's been really

870
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:47,700
helpful I couldn't find the community in

871
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:49,410
the place I'm at but that didn't mean

872
00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:50,730
that those people didn't exist somewhere

873
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:52,470
else and so I would encourage you to try

874
00:36:57,530 --> 00:36:55,170
to find ways to connect with people and

875
00:36:59,060 --> 00:36:57,540
who may be sharing experiences with you

876
00:37:01,100 --> 00:36:59,070
even if they're not in your same

877
00:37:03,740 --> 00:37:01,110
physical location which makes it harder

878
00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:03,750
but it's still possible I also use an

879
00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:06,660
amazing slack channel that's five women

880
00:37:10,370 --> 00:37:09,300
that I met at a meeting and we just I

881
00:37:11,630 --> 00:37:10,380
mean I'm sure if I looked at my phone

882
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:11,640
right now there would be like a billion

883
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:14,640
notifications and we do like memes and

884
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:16,560
professional development and brainstorm

885
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,570
how to solve a problem we're having at

886
00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:20,160
the grad student and all of these things

887
00:37:23,370 --> 00:37:20,740
all at once

888
00:37:26,220 --> 00:37:23,380
um the other thing that I wanted to say

889
00:37:27,390 --> 00:37:26,230
is that I have dealt with some issues of

890
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:27,400
harassment off and on throughout my

891
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:30,160
career in fact part of the reason that I

892
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:34,510
work on what I work on now um was the

893
00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:37,690
effect of actively avoiding a couple of

894
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:41,260
situations and a specific person that

895
00:37:44,490 --> 00:37:43,450
you know kind of said okay well I'm

896
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:44,500
going to end up going and working on

897
00:37:48,180 --> 00:37:46,240
this instead because this path isn't

898
00:37:52,109 --> 00:37:48,190
really open to me the way that the way

899
00:37:54,210 --> 00:37:52,119
that things are right now if anyone is

900
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:54,220
having any problems and they would like

901
00:37:58,140 --> 00:37:56,410
to talk to somebody about it you can

902
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:58,150
come find me afterwards or email me or

903
00:38:02,580 --> 00:38:00,400
something and if it would be at all

904
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:02,590
useful to you I have the contact

905
00:38:07,470 --> 00:38:04,690
information for a wonderful lawyer who

906
00:38:09,420 --> 00:38:07,480
specializes in title 9 cases and so if

907
00:38:10,590 --> 00:38:09,430
anybody needs that for whatever reason I

908
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:10,600
can give you the information no

909
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:12,970
questions asked but I'm happy to help if

910
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:14,110
there's anybody who's dealing with

911
00:38:22,260 --> 00:38:15,730
things like that and need somebody to

912
00:38:25,020 --> 00:38:22,270
talk to so the other the question was

913
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:25,030
sort of about family right and and I

914
00:38:28,859 --> 00:38:26,530
guess I do have some experience with

915
00:38:31,770 --> 00:38:28,869
that so I but also in the context of a

916
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:31,780
dual career situation so I was

917
00:38:37,890 --> 00:38:35,170
previously at Cornell where I said I was

918
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:37,900
a trailing spouse so to speak and that

919
00:38:43,890 --> 00:38:40,390
also meant a trailing dad because I was

920
00:38:46,260 --> 00:38:43,900
we have a son as well and in that

921
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:46,270
situation I because of that that meant

922
00:38:51,930 --> 00:38:48,400
that I sort of took on the sort of

923
00:38:56,340 --> 00:38:51,940
majority of the sort of extracurricular

924
00:38:58,500 --> 00:38:56,350
duties of being a parent so you know I

925
00:39:00,540 --> 00:38:58,510
was working strange hours and things

926
00:39:03,180 --> 00:39:00,550
like this so I do have some experience

927
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:03,190
of this my feeling is that you know

928
00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:05,890
there's no easy solution if you want to

929
00:39:11,460 --> 00:39:09,310
have a really well-functioning family

930
00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:11,470
somewhere there's going to be a hit

931
00:39:16,980 --> 00:39:15,190
taken on someone's career I mean you

932
00:39:20,420 --> 00:39:16,990
know for a long time it was mine and now

933
00:39:23,070 --> 00:39:20,430
it's sort of my wife to some extent

934
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:23,080
yeah I don't know if there is an easy

935
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:28,690
solution to that I would say maybe just

936
00:39:34,050 --> 00:39:30,730
to give you some context that my my

937
00:39:37,950 --> 00:39:34,060
experience has been that

938
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:37,960
um insofar as dual career and family

939
00:39:45,830 --> 00:39:41,920
issues go it's not necessarily a hiring

940
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:45,840
a shoe but it can be a retention issue

941
00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:48,730
you know you for example you know you

942
00:39:53,730 --> 00:39:51,310
may depending on the country where

943
00:39:58,530 --> 00:39:53,740
you're working you may have maternity

944
00:40:00,210 --> 00:39:58,540
leave and or paternity leave but you

945
00:40:02,130 --> 00:40:00,220
know two three years down the line

946
00:40:07,470 --> 00:40:02,140
that's not going to be there for you

947
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:07,480
necessarily and you know so you may at

948
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:09,760
that point make a you know a life

949
00:40:15,690 --> 00:40:12,160
decision that is not necessarily in

950
00:40:17,610 --> 00:40:15,700
favor of staying in academia again I

951
00:40:19,980 --> 00:40:17,620
don't know if there is an easy solution

952
00:40:22,770 --> 00:40:19,990
for it but just to sort of be clear-eyed

953
00:40:24,750 --> 00:40:22,780
about it what may come down the line

954
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:24,760
what sort of decisions you may come up

955
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:38,310
a lot of you are involved in hiring it

956
00:40:43,370 --> 00:40:40,930
appears is there anything that stands

957
00:40:45,660 --> 00:40:43,380
out on the CV or the resume other than

958
00:40:47,730 --> 00:40:45,670
papers and technical skills or is that

959
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:47,740
basically all it boils down to is there

960
00:40:53,010 --> 00:40:50,890
things that we should be striving for to

961
00:40:57,540 --> 00:40:53,020
make a stand out from the pack when

962
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,550
you're looking at hiring well job just

963
00:41:02,970 --> 00:40:59,040
say something could get it

964
00:41:05,010 --> 00:41:02,980
so my limited experience of hiring or

965
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:05,020
you know just talking to people about

966
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:06,730
the process generally I think that

967
00:41:11,420 --> 00:41:08,650
there's a lot of intangibles in the

968
00:41:15,150 --> 00:41:11,430
whole process and there's a lot of luck

969
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:15,160
and there are some things maybe you just

970
00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:17,170
can't teach I don't know but I would say

971
00:41:23,070 --> 00:41:19,560
what aside from those obvious points

972
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:23,080
just having good ideas and following

973
00:41:26,849 --> 00:41:25,810
them through is a really strong is it

974
00:41:31,020 --> 00:41:26,859
you know it's just a good way of

975
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:31,030
building a strong career and you know

976
00:41:37,380 --> 00:41:32,770
following through is actually just as

977
00:41:42,620 --> 00:41:37,390
important as having a good idea yeah I

978
00:41:47,490 --> 00:41:45,720
think the the main thing that you can do

979
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:47,500
to really stand out is be is be prepared

980
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:49,599
to do the job which is kind of a joke

981
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:52,530
now after how the election went but um

982
00:41:57,359 --> 00:41:55,570
you know we so even though I've only

983
00:42:00,960 --> 00:41:57,369
been at Hopkins for three years we have

984
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:00,970
run five searches or something we've

985
00:42:06,359 --> 00:42:03,730
hired eight faculty members since I got

986
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:06,369
there um which is ridiculous and

987
00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:08,910
probably explains why I'm so tired um

988
00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:11,710
but you know in that in graduate

989
00:42:16,589 --> 00:42:13,270
application Xand looking at hiring

990
00:42:17,820 --> 00:42:16,599
postdocs I mean if you're if the work

991
00:42:19,950 --> 00:42:17,830
that you've done up to that point shows

992
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:19,960
that you're you know you've been writing

993
00:42:22,290 --> 00:42:21,130
the papers and doing the research and

994
00:42:23,790 --> 00:42:22,300
whatever else that's great you know

995
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:23,800
you've prepared yourself in that way but

996
00:42:26,849 --> 00:42:25,330
how else are you practicing

997
00:42:28,980 --> 00:42:26,859
communication because I need somebody

998
00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:28,990
who can write papers who can give tick

999
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:31,089
ass talks who can you know write

1000
00:42:34,890 --> 00:42:32,650
proposals do all those things and so

1001
00:42:37,950 --> 00:42:34,900
demonstrating that you you know are

1002
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:37,960
strong communicating is awesome and when

1003
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:40,380
you show up for an interview like this

1004
00:42:45,300 --> 00:42:42,970
this is going to sound totally stupid

1005
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:45,310
but like be prepared for the interview

1006
00:42:48,059 --> 00:42:47,650
you would be amazed how many people show

1007
00:42:49,709 --> 00:42:48,069
up for

1008
00:42:53,249 --> 00:42:49,719
faculty interviews and haven't actually

1009
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:53,259
like figured anything out about the

1010
00:42:57,329 --> 00:42:55,839
university or the department or what

1011
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:57,339
classes are being taught or anything

1012
00:43:02,309 --> 00:42:59,440
else and the people that we've hired

1013
00:43:04,829 --> 00:43:02,319
stand out in my mind most from the

1014
00:43:07,170 --> 00:43:04,839
entire process of just showing up for

1015
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:07,180
their interview with a talk that was

1016
00:43:12,660 --> 00:43:09,930
polished with questions to ask and just

1017
00:43:14,430 --> 00:43:12,670
ready to show that they you know were

1018
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:14,440
invested in getting the job and that

1019
00:43:18,509 --> 00:43:16,209
they were prepared to do it which sounds

1020
00:43:23,849 --> 00:43:18,519
really stupid but um

1021
00:43:26,579 --> 00:43:23,859
I think is true yeah I think a lot of

1022
00:43:29,069 --> 00:43:26,589
those things apply and non-academic

1023
00:43:31,140 --> 00:43:29,079
interviews as well right like if you

1024
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:31,150
want a job even if you don't want the

1025
00:43:35,609 --> 00:43:33,910
job like feign interest in the company

1026
00:43:39,029 --> 00:43:35,619
you know have some questions that you

1027
00:43:41,219 --> 00:43:39,039
maybe want to ask you know I would also

1028
00:43:43,859 --> 00:43:41,229
say that if you are applying for

1029
00:43:46,259 --> 00:43:43,869
non-academic jobs you should have a

1030
00:43:48,749 --> 00:43:46,269
resume that is different from your CV

1031
00:43:51,269 --> 00:43:48,759
like a CV and a resume are not the same

1032
00:43:53,309 --> 00:43:51,279
thing and if you were to apply say for a

1033
00:43:55,229 --> 00:43:53,319
data scientist position and you were to

1034
00:43:57,959 --> 00:43:55,239
send me a five page CV I wouldn't read

1035
00:43:59,579 --> 00:43:57,969
it um you know I it's not fair to say

1036
00:44:02,189 --> 00:43:59,589
like I don't care that you presented a

1037
00:44:03,390 --> 00:44:02,199
poster here like you know but those are

1038
00:44:04,859 --> 00:44:03,400
the kinds of things that don't go on a

1039
00:44:08,699 --> 00:44:04,869
resume like don't put them there like

1040
00:44:10,529 --> 00:44:08,709
publications are fine um you know work

1041
00:44:13,140 --> 00:44:10,539
experience like one of the things I look

1042
00:44:15,299 --> 00:44:13,150
for um you know Rob had talked about

1043
00:44:17,789 --> 00:44:15,309
good ideas and following through I think

1044
00:44:19,769 --> 00:44:17,799
also you know any sort of initiative

1045
00:44:21,509 --> 00:44:19,779
you've taken even if it's just a job

1046
00:44:23,009 --> 00:44:21,519
that you feel like oh this was just

1047
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,019
something smaller it wasn't important

1048
00:44:27,180 --> 00:44:25,359
like if you took some initiative or you

1049
00:44:29,699 --> 00:44:27,190
implemented something or you created a

1050
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:29,709
new process you know put that on there

1051
00:44:34,349 --> 00:44:32,170
be brief I have gone to undergraduate

1052
00:44:36,689 --> 00:44:34,359
career fairs and had people hand me a

1053
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,699
four page resume like if you were just

1054
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:38,319
out of undergrad your resume should be

1055
00:44:41,699 --> 00:44:40,150
one page not four I realized I have

1056
00:44:43,620 --> 00:44:41,709
strong opinions about this and I should

1057
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:43,630
also give you the caveat that even my

1058
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:45,729
boss says when I interview people I'm

1059
00:44:49,890 --> 00:44:47,609
way too hard on them so I probably

1060
00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:49,900
should not be answering this question

1061
00:44:54,589 --> 00:44:51,910
because if I were to interview myself I

1062
00:44:56,699 --> 00:44:54,599
probably would not offer myself a job so

1063
00:44:58,829 --> 00:44:56,709
take everything I'm saying with that

1064
00:45:00,950 --> 00:44:58,839
grain of salt but also you know be brief

1065
00:45:02,750 --> 00:45:00,960
be concise be prepared

1066
00:45:05,630 --> 00:45:02,760
right also if you are applying for a job

1067
00:45:07,460 --> 00:45:05,640
not in academia wear a suit even if

1068
00:45:09,530 --> 00:45:07,470
you're the most dressed person there it

1069
00:45:11,390 --> 00:45:09,540
looks like you care and it looks like

1070
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:11,400
you know you are showed up you know and

1071
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:12,930
you you are showed up that's not good

1072
00:45:18,070 --> 00:45:14,730
grammar but you see what I'm saying

1073
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:18,080
and so you know I think there's that too

1074
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:20,490
so I don't have much to say since I'm

1075
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:22,410
not involved in hiring anyone but just

1076
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:24,810
from the applicant perspective um I

1077
00:45:29,450 --> 00:45:26,880
found it it helps enormous ly if you

1078
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:29,460
tale tailor everything it's better to

1079
00:45:34,970 --> 00:45:31,170
apply for fewer things that you're

1080
00:45:36,650 --> 00:45:34,980
interested in and tailor heavily than to

1081
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:36,660
apply for 70 things you're kind of

1082
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:38,609
interested in or only half qualified

1083
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:40,890
it's not winning the lottery you're

1084
00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:42,690
selling and you're selling yourself and

1085
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:45,510
so you need to put that sort of effort

1086
00:45:51,410 --> 00:45:49,680
into things so second that because

1087
00:45:52,820 --> 00:45:51,420
Amanda had a great application and a

1088
00:45:55,550 --> 00:45:52,830
fantastic interview because of

1089
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:55,560
specifically that she was extremely

1090
00:45:58,370 --> 00:45:56,640
prepared

1091
00:46:01,460 --> 00:45:58,380
she was concise and clear with her

1092
00:46:03,290 --> 00:46:01,470
answers with everything that she did the

1093
00:46:06,170 --> 00:46:03,300
you could tell that people are searching

1094
00:46:09,740 --> 00:46:06,180
or reaching for an answer when they're

1095
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:09,750
not prepared so concise clear answers be

1096
00:46:14,839 --> 00:46:11,160
confident what you're saying don't

1097
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:14,849
ramble on and really like I said show

1098
00:46:20,020 --> 00:46:17,280
interest in the people that are that are

1099
00:46:22,099 --> 00:46:20,030
actually interviewing with you this is a

1100
00:46:25,099 --> 00:46:22,109
unconscious thing that people have done

1101
00:46:26,859 --> 00:46:25,109
in interviews that I found is what they

1102
00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:26,869
don't look at the entire committee

1103
00:46:32,060 --> 00:46:29,550
they'll focus on one person and I'm

1104
00:46:34,220 --> 00:46:32,070
going to look at you the entire time the

1105
00:46:35,329 --> 00:46:34,230
entire hour even though this person over

1106
00:46:37,490 --> 00:46:35,339
here just asked me a question

1107
00:46:39,859 --> 00:46:37,500
I'm looking at you don't know why but

1108
00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:39,869
that seems it's very disengaging and one

1109
00:46:43,339 --> 00:46:41,220
of the things that we are looking for a

1110
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,349
lot in the last round of hires that we

1111
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:45,599
did or people that could work in a team

1112
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:46,410
environment how are you going to

1113
00:46:51,370 --> 00:46:50,250
contribute to the team and if you can

1114
00:46:54,589 --> 00:46:51,380
demonstrate that by acknowledging

1115
00:46:55,940 --> 00:46:54,599
everyone in the team that is they're

1116
00:46:57,260 --> 00:46:55,950
interviewing you that's your team that

1117
00:46:58,609 --> 00:46:57,270
you're working with right now that's

1118
00:47:01,280 --> 00:46:58,619
that's the team that's going you're

1119
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:01,290
going to be working with and say Aspen

1120
00:47:04,700 --> 00:47:02,880
that's a very good question call out the

1121
00:47:06,579 --> 00:47:04,710
people by name you are introduced to

1122
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:06,589
each one of these people as your as your

1123
00:47:10,820 --> 00:47:09,450
as you're being interviewed okay so at

1124
00:47:11,390 --> 00:47:10,830
and if you don't remember I'm sorry what

1125
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:11,400
was your name again

1126
00:47:14,540 --> 00:47:13,410
Oh Aspen okay great yeah so that was a

1127
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:14,550
great question and

1128
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:16,290
here's what here's what I think that

1129
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:17,970
kind of engagement and personal

1130
00:47:21,260 --> 00:47:19,280
interaction with the people is

1131
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:21,270
tremendous because that shows the work

1132
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:22,650
as part a team and you're interested in

1133
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:24,240
just two people not just technical

1134
00:47:32,330 --> 00:47:28,530
aspect and the and the the nuts and

1135
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:32,340
bolts of the question itself quickly I

1136
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:34,050
want to add two more things if you don't

1137
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:36,090
know it's perfectly fine to say I don't

1138
00:47:40,970 --> 00:47:39,210
know but what I think based on XYZ is

1139
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:40,980
this like if you don't know don't fake

1140
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:42,960
it just say you don't know but it by the

1141
00:47:46,970 --> 00:47:45,210
same token if you list on your resume

1142
00:47:48,740 --> 00:47:46,980
that you have experience with something

1143
00:47:50,330 --> 00:47:48,750
be prepared to talk about it like

1144
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:50,340
sometimes people have come and they've

1145
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:51,810
listed something on the resume and I

1146
00:47:55,790 --> 00:47:53,490
asked them about it and they're like I

1147
00:47:58,490 --> 00:47:55,800
don't remember or I don't like they have

1148
00:48:01,460 --> 00:47:58,500
no answer for it so that's another thing

1149
00:48:03,290 --> 00:48:01,470
to that's really important because you

1150
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:03,300
will get we do look at the resumes we

1151
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:05,130
read all the resumes and if you say that

1152
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:07,410
you did the band five commissioning down

1153
00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:09,210
in Alma for three years really what did

1154
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:13,500
you do uh we're going to drill down

1155
00:48:17,390 --> 00:48:15,450
especially when I want to know exactly

1156
00:48:18,980 --> 00:48:17,400
I'm looking for a very technically savvy

1157
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:18,990
person that's going to help Commission

1158
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:20,610
an array I want to know what you did

1159
00:48:23,630 --> 00:48:21,930
because that's the kind of person I'm

1160
00:48:25,930 --> 00:48:23,640
looking for if you said well I went down

1161
00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:25,940
because my advisor told me to go down

1162
00:48:30,890 --> 00:48:28,710
that's you know commissioning band five

1163
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:30,900
is not that's not the same thing

1164
00:48:33,290 --> 00:48:32,160
so we're going to ask you those

1165
00:48:36,610 --> 00:48:33,300
technical questions because we are

1166
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:36,620
looking for those kind of people and she

1167
00:48:43,370 --> 00:48:41,490
hit every one of them well a lot of it

1168
00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:43,380
is sort of bringing it's what you'd like

1169
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:45,960
to do and what you want to do um I I've

1170
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:48,960
been in interviews where one I was like

1171
00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:50,010
please don't hire me

1172
00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:56,730
me and and two um it's a long story so I

1173
00:48:59,870 --> 00:48:58,530
went through a phase in my life in my

1174
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,880
face and week two thing was that oh

1175
00:49:04,310 --> 00:49:01,440
maybe I'll try teaching colleges because

1176
00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:04,320
teaching colleges are easier right that

1177
00:49:08,060 --> 00:49:06,180
this was the logic I'm not saying it

1178
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:08,070
made sense it was it was the logic and

1179
00:49:11,690 --> 00:49:10,410
so I apply got some teaching experience

1180
00:49:13,490 --> 00:49:11,700
I started applying for teaching

1181
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:13,500
positions and I had enough that I would

1182
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:16,170
get in person interviews which was great

1183
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:17,760
experience in person interviewed but I

1184
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:19,890
was there going oh I hate this please

1185
00:49:24,529 --> 00:49:22,410
don't offer it to me I don't want to do

1186
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,539
this and and

1187
00:49:28,189 --> 00:49:26,400
you know and I also you know flub the

1188
00:49:30,349 --> 00:49:28,199
teaching demo which is sort of a no-no

1189
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:30,359
in that situation so you're not going to

1190
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:32,130
be great at everything but there are

1191
00:49:34,789 --> 00:49:33,119
some things that you're going to be

1192
00:49:37,189 --> 00:49:34,799
really great at and you should hone in

1193
00:49:39,140 --> 00:49:37,199
on that and and don't get focused on I

1194
00:49:41,509 --> 00:49:39,150
want to be a professor or I want to be a

1195
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:41,519
data scientist be focused on what you

1196
00:49:48,140 --> 00:49:46,890
are and what you like one more

1197
00:49:50,269 --> 00:49:48,150
interviewing tip which is also gonna

1198
00:49:51,709 --> 00:49:50,279
sound really ridiculous but like if

1199
00:49:54,739 --> 00:49:51,719
you're there for a full-day interview

1200
00:49:56,839 --> 00:49:54,749
like a faculty interview and it's come

1201
00:49:58,789 --> 00:49:56,849
up in multiple searches how the

1202
00:50:02,179 --> 00:49:58,799
candidate treated our administrative

1203
00:50:04,339 --> 00:50:02,189
staff and when we went out to dinner how

1204
00:50:07,999 --> 00:50:04,349
the candidate treated the server's at

1205
00:50:09,739 --> 00:50:08,009
the restaurant um so I actually make it

1206
00:50:11,359 --> 00:50:09,749
a habit now I always go ask our admins

1207
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:11,369
how they were treated by our by the

1208
00:50:15,739 --> 00:50:12,650
people that were interviewing for jobs

1209
00:50:17,449 --> 00:50:15,749
so if you're you know being super super

1210
00:50:19,459 --> 00:50:17,459
nice to the people who are interviewing

1211
00:50:22,130 --> 00:50:19,469
you and then you're treating the people

1212
00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:22,140
who are doing your travel reimbursement

1213
00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:24,209
or the people who are bringing wine to

1214
00:50:31,179 --> 00:50:26,910
the table like pretty decent chance

1215
00:50:37,249 --> 00:50:34,009
I'll just say something that kind of we

1216
00:50:38,449 --> 00:50:37,259
um sort of just step back and just look

1217
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:38,459
at the first stage of the actual

1218
00:50:44,409 --> 00:50:40,650
application but and this sort of follows

1219
00:50:46,789 --> 00:50:44,419
on from what has been said already but

1220
00:50:49,549 --> 00:50:46,799
when you're writing an application the

1221
00:50:50,989 --> 00:50:49,559
people reading application are going to

1222
00:50:53,149 --> 00:50:50,999
be reading maybe hundreds of these

1223
00:50:56,029 --> 00:50:53,159
things and they will not spend a lot of

1224
00:50:58,099 --> 00:50:56,039
time looking at each one so if you hide

1225
00:51:01,219 --> 00:50:58,109
information in there it will not get

1226
00:51:03,499 --> 00:51:01,229
found you want to present really clearly

1227
00:51:06,380 --> 00:51:03,509
really early on the most important

1228
00:51:08,779 --> 00:51:06,390
things that will make them want to delve

1229
00:51:10,159 --> 00:51:08,789
deeper and spend that extra bit of time

1230
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:10,169
reading your application because it's

1231
00:51:14,419 --> 00:51:11,609
very easy to just throw away an

1232
00:51:16,819 --> 00:51:14,429
application the other thing is and it's

1233
00:51:19,909 --> 00:51:16,829
it's hard to know because of the nature

1234
00:51:22,699 --> 00:51:19,919
of reference letters because you never

1235
00:51:25,459 --> 00:51:22,709
usually see them but somehow or other

1236
00:51:29,029 --> 00:51:25,469
you need to figure out who your f your

1237
00:51:31,489 --> 00:51:29,039
best referees are going to be armed and

1238
00:51:34,969 --> 00:51:31,499
so that sort of involves a certain

1239
00:51:37,429 --> 00:51:34,979
amount of sub diffusion and espionage

1240
00:51:38,650 --> 00:51:37,439
maybe not actually steaming open letters

1241
00:51:43,219 --> 00:51:38,660
but I mean

1242
00:51:47,059 --> 00:51:43,229
in the sense of working out one way or

1243
00:51:50,329 --> 00:51:47,069
another which no no I said no I said

1244
00:51:53,890 --> 00:51:50,339
don't do that what I'm saying is for

1245
00:51:58,130 --> 00:51:53,900
example if somebody has has employed you

1246
00:52:01,249 --> 00:51:58,140
and has received letters from other

1247
00:52:04,099 --> 00:52:01,259
letter writers there's no reason for you

1248
00:52:07,009 --> 00:52:04,109
not to ask was my letter from this

1249
00:52:09,559 --> 00:52:07,019
person any good because some people may

1250
00:52:11,959 --> 00:52:09,569
be really you know they may talk a great

1251
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:11,969
game about you and they may be just your

1252
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:14,130
best friend and then they write a

1253
00:52:18,620 --> 00:52:16,529
terrible letter or they write a letter

1254
00:52:21,289 --> 00:52:18,630
this one paragraph that just says

1255
00:52:22,969 --> 00:52:21,299
nothing so the you know or just says

1256
00:52:24,859 --> 00:52:22,979
something bland like this is the best

1257
00:52:27,199 --> 00:52:24,869
person I've ever worked with and that's

1258
00:52:29,390 --> 00:52:27,209
at the end of it you know so you want to

1259
00:52:30,890 --> 00:52:29,400
talk to your letter itís about what you

1260
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:30,900
want them to say give them a lot of

1261
00:52:34,729 --> 00:52:33,119
guidance point that you want them to

1262
00:52:37,459 --> 00:52:34,739
make and you need to one way or another

1263
00:52:44,929 --> 00:52:37,469
figure out who are not the best people

1264
00:52:49,150 --> 00:52:44,939
to ask just just one more thing about

1265
00:52:55,099 --> 00:52:49,160
this is I think that you need to read

1266
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:55,109
the advertisement carefully okay no this

1267
00:52:59,269 --> 00:52:57,839
is not a joke because you know you say

1268
00:53:00,769 --> 00:52:59,279
oh this University of Michigan is hiring

1269
00:53:01,789 --> 00:53:00,779
a faculty number okay but great boom

1270
00:53:03,529 --> 00:53:01,799
boom boom boom and start writing your

1271
00:53:06,140 --> 00:53:03,539
butt and you don't even read what we're

1272
00:53:08,839 --> 00:53:06,150
asking for that is doing you a huge

1273
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:08,849
disservice and that's that's doing us a

1274
00:53:13,999 --> 00:53:12,209
big disservice too because you know one

1275
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:14,009
of the things that we don't have a lot

1276
00:53:18,289 --> 00:53:15,689
of very technically savvy people and

1277
00:53:21,679 --> 00:53:18,299
that could really do our jobs that that

1278
00:53:23,390 --> 00:53:21,689
we need done and we also are not in the

1279
00:53:25,370 --> 00:53:23,400
what we've learned over the last several

1280
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:25,380
years is we're not in the business of

1281
00:53:28,579 --> 00:53:27,119
building an all-star team all-star teams

1282
00:53:30,799 --> 00:53:28,589
don't win all the time and they don't

1283
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:30,809
work together all the time I'm not

1284
00:53:33,499 --> 00:53:32,160
looking for the best players all the

1285
00:53:34,699 --> 00:53:33,509
time I'm looking for the right ones I'm

1286
00:53:36,229 --> 00:53:34,709
looking for the right people that are

1287
00:53:38,359 --> 00:53:36,239
going to fill these positions that I

1288
00:53:40,999 --> 00:53:38,369
need done in order so that we can

1289
00:53:42,589 --> 00:53:41,009
continue on our mission as NRAO as North

1290
00:53:45,049 --> 00:53:42,599
American on the Science Center that's

1291
00:53:47,410 --> 00:53:45,059
what I need and so yeah you may be you

1292
00:53:49,969 --> 00:53:47,420
know the best you know whatever

1293
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:49,979
astrobiologist is something that you are

1294
00:53:53,809 --> 00:53:51,690
I don't need you right now but I

1295
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:53,819
need this filled and so if you are the

1296
00:53:58,730 --> 00:53:56,010
right fit for our team and what we're

1297
00:54:00,530 --> 00:53:58,740
trying to do and you outline that based

1298
00:54:02,390 --> 00:54:00,540
on reading our reading our job

1299
00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:02,400
advertisement what we need what skills

1300
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:03,960
you have that put you in there that's

1301
00:54:06,980 --> 00:54:05,760
what I need I don't I don't care about

1302
00:54:08,540 --> 00:54:06,990
all the rest of the great things that

1303
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:08,550
you did and how awesome you are and

1304
00:54:12,050 --> 00:54:10,770
there's all of these other things we're

1305
00:54:13,700 --> 00:54:12,060
looking for the right players not the

1306
00:54:15,470 --> 00:54:13,710
best ones at this point and that's and

1307
00:54:17,930 --> 00:54:15,480
that's really how our teams have been

1308
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:17,940
able to progress and do the things that

1309
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:20,250
we have to do and I don't know you find

1310
00:54:30,980 --> 00:54:28,880
the same thing that's right one quickly

1311
00:54:32,530 --> 00:54:30,990
I'll quickly say one thing and then

1312
00:54:36,349 --> 00:54:32,540
probably there's some more questions and

1313
00:54:37,819 --> 00:54:36,359
we also not every person is going to

1314
00:54:40,190 --> 00:54:37,829
have every single skill you need

1315
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:40,200
especially in data science right like we

1316
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:42,510
joke like you know there's a joke that

1317
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:43,890
like oh data scientists are unicorns

1318
00:54:47,089 --> 00:54:45,180
right because you have to be able to do

1319
00:54:48,620 --> 00:54:47,099
it you know mathematics and statistical

1320
00:54:51,079 --> 00:54:48,630
analysis and write all this really

1321
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:51,089
sophisticated code and you know you have

1322
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:52,650
consulting experience and you have to

1323
00:54:57,710 --> 00:54:55,680
have these 97 million things and there

1324
00:55:00,200 --> 00:54:57,720
is not one person on our team that can

1325
00:55:02,930 --> 00:55:00,210
do everything you hire a team with

1326
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:02,940
skills that complement each other and so

1327
00:55:07,460 --> 00:55:05,910
you have we say like we like to say we

1328
00:55:09,770 --> 00:55:07,470
build a team that's the Unicorn that's

1329
00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:09,780
maybe a little cheesy but like I have an

1330
00:55:14,540 --> 00:55:12,420
incredibly strong team but you take you

1331
00:55:15,859 --> 00:55:14,550
know you you mix and match they don't

1332
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:15,869
all have the same strengths and

1333
00:55:22,849 --> 00:55:17,130
weaknesses and I think that's also

1334
00:55:25,710 --> 00:55:22,859
really important cool we all hope to be

1335
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:32,400
[Music]

1336
00:55:36,509 --> 00:55:34,829
really check or not be able to check

1337
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:36,519
before you feel too embarrassed to apply

1338
00:55:42,269 --> 00:55:40,569
I think you should apply I think if you

1339
00:55:43,859 --> 00:55:42,279
want the job and you have even some

1340
00:55:45,690 --> 00:55:43,869
fraction of the skills you should apply

1341
00:55:47,309 --> 00:55:45,700
because sometimes it's a wish list of

1342
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:47,319
like if we could get everything we would

1343
00:55:50,730 --> 00:55:48,970
want this but you know you're probably

1344
00:55:53,789 --> 00:55:50,740
not going to get everything sometimes

1345
00:55:55,769 --> 00:55:53,799
job applications are written by someone

1346
00:55:57,720 --> 00:55:55,779
who has nothing to do with the

1347
00:55:59,849 --> 00:55:57,730
department are you know they're written

1348
00:56:01,710 --> 00:55:59,859
by some HR department somewhere else you

1349
00:56:03,359 --> 00:56:01,720
just have to like check a list of boxes

1350
00:56:04,890 --> 00:56:03,369
who actually have no idea what the job

1351
00:56:07,529 --> 00:56:04,900
function is going to entail so I think

1352
00:56:09,930 --> 00:56:07,539
as long as you put together like a good

1353
00:56:11,940 --> 00:56:09,940
cover letter a good resume you know you

1354
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:11,950
can even say in your letter like you

1355
00:56:17,069 --> 00:56:13,930
know I don't have you know experience

1356
00:56:18,690 --> 00:56:17,079
using you know you know I don't know I'm

1357
00:56:21,539 --> 00:56:18,700
trying to think of something like Python

1358
00:56:23,130 --> 00:56:21,549
but you know I have written and you know

1359
00:56:25,170 --> 00:56:23,140
these three other object-oriented

1360
00:56:27,180 --> 00:56:25,180
programming languages or I haven't you

1361
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:27,190
know necessarily done Scala but I have a

1362
00:56:30,329 --> 00:56:28,690
lot of experience in Java and I know

1363
00:56:32,190 --> 00:56:30,339
they're similar or I'm working on a

1364
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:32,200
Coursera course or whatever right like

1365
00:56:35,549 --> 00:56:34,240
you can be like I know I don't have this

1366
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:35,559
but I have this and I'm great and you

1367
00:56:45,059 --> 00:56:43,450
should hire me anyway well that has

1368
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:45,069
taken us up into the end of the session